6/8/20 Harrisburg after action report/critique.
#1
Overall I think things went pretty well. Gixxer's comms plan went great.


I wanted to compile a list of things we could do better for next time.

For one, scoping out the parking area that we designate a little better. I don't know for sure if the barricade was put up in response to us, but it's worth ensuring that we check for that kind of stuff ahead of time.

We should see who is an amateur/pro photographer and see if they want to be our official photographer. 

We might want to consider more of you having PA2A instagram access, that way more than just I am posting photos to it at rallies.

I hate instagram but that's not for this thread really. Tongue

It was nice that streaker brought water, but we should make sure snacks/water is standard fare.


What else?
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#2
This is a total afterthought, and maybe some people are gonna throw the sjw tag at me...but in light of current events, I think it would have been a very positive message for the entirety of the people on attendance to acknowledge the current events surrounding the global protests with a symbolic effort (kneeling, silence, etc) to show that we are NOT in opposition to the protestors for equal civil rights and an end to police brutality. I know the 2a crowd has been getting pounded by the msm in many ways as the bad guys. Even if some among us aren't in complete agreement with the protesters, a little solidarity goes a long way towards promoting the good intentions of our message. We need to make an effort to stem the tide of bullshit that comes at us.

Considering a large driver of the current protest movement is coming from the left side of the aisle, it seems like a perfect opportunity to forge some bonds with the RTKBA.
#3
(06-09-2020, 12:42 AM)Friedchickenwaffles Wrote: This is a total afterthought, and maybe some people are gonna throw the sjw tag at me...but in light of current events, I think it would have been a very positive message for the entirety of the people on attendance to acknowledge the current events surrounding the global protests with a symbolic effort (kneeling, silence, etc) to show that we are NOT in opposition to the protestors for equal civil rights and an end to police brutality. I know the 2a crowd has been getting pounded by the msm in many ways as the bad guys. Even if some among us aren't in complete agreement with the protesters, a little solidarity goes a long way towards promoting the good intentions of our message. We need to make an effort to stem the tide of bullshit that comes at us.

Considering a large driver of the current protest movement is coming from the left side of the aisle, it seems like a perfect opportunity to forge some bonds with the RTKBA.


I agree with you and I actually intended on have some "Justice or George" signs but the maker failed to deliver. It was too last minute for me to do anything else.
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#4
I know this was out of your control (Justin), but the idea of allowing randoms folks to step out of the crowd and take the bullhorn is risky. The topics strayed a bit from our main focus, and on a few points came into territory where one part of the larger group may disagree with another part.

Also, I've already seen mention of nametags on the other forum. I do think that's a good idea, and it has been done in the past. My personal experience was that the pin-on plastic holders were better for any/all temperatures and weather conditions and we had lots of folks that retained and re-used them.

I am 1000% opposed to having the PAFOA name on ANY item produced for our events. Yes, we'll publicize there, and hopefully get lots of bodies from there, but Dan has made it crystal clear from the very beginning that PAFOA has no "members". Personally, I won't contribute towards the production of items bearing their name instead of ours.

PA2A is filling a gap. It's needed, and right out of the gate it's being done very well. We need to get the PA2A name out there at every chance we get. Even if it's just a paper nametag.

One more thought that might be a bit premature. Way back when Rich Banks and myself ran paopencarry.org, we didn't actually get around to forming a 501c3. What we did do is create a separate bank account for the webiste to use for fundraising items purchased and collecting the donations we then dispersed to legal cases.

Obviously, Justin can run the donations any way he wants, but at some point, someone may ask about record keeping. In the course of about 2 years, we had cash flow of about 13k, most of that being outright donations that went to specific legal challenges. It was very helpful to not have that kind of money mingled with and going through my regular personal accounts, and it was much easier to produce statements and such that included only the relevant transactions.
#5
(06-09-2020, 11:57 AM)gnbrotz Wrote: I know this was out of your control (Justin), but the idea of allowing randoms folks to step out of the crowd and take the bullhorn is risky. The topics strayed a bit from our main focus, and on a few points came into territory where one part of the larger group may disagree with another part.

Also, I've already seen mention of nametags on the other forum. I do think that's a good idea, and it has been done in the past. My personal experience was that the pin-on plastic holders were better for any/all temperatures and weather conditions and we had lots of folks that retained and re-used them.

I am 1000% opposed to having the PAFOA name on ANY item produced for our events. Yes, we'll publicize there, and hopefully get lots of bodies from there, but Dan has made it crystal clear from the very beginning that PAFOA has no "members". Personally, I won't contribute towards the production of items bearing their name instead of ours.

PA2A is filling a gap. It's needed, and right out of the gate it's being done very well. We need to get the PA2A name out there at every chance we get. Even if it's just a paper nametag.

One more thought that might be a bit premature. Way back when Rich Banks and myself ran paopencarry.org, we didn't actually get around to forming a 501c3. What we did do is create a separate bank account for the webiste to use for fundraising items purchased and collecting the donations we then dispersed to legal cases.

Obviously, Justin can run the donations any way he wants, but at some point, someone may ask about record keeping. In the course of about 2 years, we had cash flow of about 13k, most of that being outright donations that went to specific legal challenges. It was very helpful to not have that kind of money mingled with and going through my regular personal accounts, and it was much easier to produce statements and such that included only the relevant transactions.
Seconded. I dont care what logo they use. Forgot about the fishing license style plastic things. At that point they are.multi use and your just at the cost of paper and ink and sharpies

As far as accounts. Whatever but its best kept completely seperate from everything else with its own clear detailed ledger.
Good practices make non issues when and if money gets big enough to bring attention
#6
There is a separate PA2A PayPal and PayPal address. It's where the WordPress site donation thing goes.

I think I covered that somewhere here maybe in the fundraising thread.

I received about 320 dollars in donations yesterday, which is a start. Going to donate some to the 3% then put in the PayPal.

I'm going to have an accounting forum to post what comes in and goes out.
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#7
I'll third the usage of organizational names. PA2A should be the one publicized for organizing any rallys (that's the entire purpose of it's existence obviously). POOFA members that attend are there by their own choosing.
#8
I agree, there's no intent to have PAFOA on anything going forward. Wish we could have seen the split coming and had PA2A hats made lol.

It's also why I swapped the website to PA2A on the tshirts. Fortunately, no one asked for their money back.

Unfortunately, I have a ton of the PAFOA patches.
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#9
(06-09-2020, 02:31 PM)JustinHEMI Wrote: Unfortunately, I have a ton of the PAFOA patches.

I don't see any harm in being proud of being a POOFA  Big Grin
#10
If PA2A is going to be the official organizer, that's great.   It will be a more streamlined and professional planning entity, almost an "event planner" for the rallies.   Still, reaching out to PAFOA to get attendance at the event will still need to be part of the equation just due to the huge pool of members there that may not sign up here...and frankly, we may not want to sign up here because of the nature of this forum as being in charge of efficiently organizing events.

After some discussion about nametags on PAFOA yesterday and today, I'd also agree that PAFOA's logo shouldn't be on tags, and maybe neither forum's should be.   Perhaps a standard 2A-themed nametag is best...leaving the wearer to choose what name or screen name they want to share.



Security team was amazing, not just because there were no incidents but because of their response to he medical situation...lightning fast.   I also did not notice them where they were staged, they blended in with the crowd in appearance very well, which is probably a huge benefit if someone had come to start trouble.

Great job on this one, Justin and the rest of the team.
#11
I'm probably try to sell them anyway since people outside of pa like them too and after costs covered, send what little profit is left to Dan.
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#12
(06-09-2020, 05:18 PM)JustinHEMI Wrote: I'm probably try to sell them anyway since people outside of pa like them too and after costs covered, send what little profit is left to Dan.
I'll buy some off of you.  I can give them out at the group shoots.  Let me see if I can get some group shoot money from Greg and maybe I can take a bunch.

(06-09-2020, 11:57 AM)gnbrotz Wrote: I know this was out of your control (Justin), but the idea of allowing randoms folks to step out of the crowd and take the bullhorn is risky. The topics strayed a bit from our main focus, and on a few points came into territory where one part of the larger group may disagree with another part.

Also, I've already seen mention of nametags on the other forum. I do think that's a good idea, and it has been done in the past. My personal experience was that the pin-on plastic holders were better for any/all temperatures and weather conditions and we had lots of folks that retained and re-used them.

I am 1000% opposed to having the PAFOA name on ANY item produced for our events. Yes, we'll publicize there, and hopefully get lots of bodies from there, but Dan has made it crystal clear from the very beginning that PAFOA has no "members". Personally, I won't contribute towards the production of items bearing their name instead of ours.

PA2A is filling a gap. It's needed, and right out of the gate it's being done very well. We need to get the PA2A name out there at every chance we get. Even if it's just a paper nametag.

One more thought that might be a bit premature. Way back when Rich Banks and myself ran paopencarry.org, we didn't actually get around to forming a 501c3. What we did do is create a separate bank account for the webiste to use for fundraising items purchased and collecting the donations we then dispersed to legal cases.

Obviously, Justin can run the donations any way he wants, but at some point, someone may ask about record keeping. In the course of about 2 years, we had cash flow of about 13k, most of that being outright donations that went to specific legal challenges. It was very helpful to not have that kind of money mingled with and going through my regular personal accounts, and it was much easier to produce statements and such that included only the relevant transactions.
100% agree with all of this.  ?
#13
(06-09-2020, 12:42 AM)Friedchickenwaffles Wrote: This is a total afterthought, and maybe some people are gonna throw the sjw tag at me...but in light of current events, I think it would have been a very positive message for the entirety of the people on attendance to acknowledge the current events surrounding the global protests with a symbolic effort (kneeling, silence, etc) to show that we are NOT in opposition to the protestors for equal civil rights and an end to police brutality. I know the 2a crowd has been getting pounded by the msm in many ways as the bad guys. Even if some among us aren't in complete agreement with the protesters, a little solidarity goes a long way towards promoting the good intentions of our message. We need to make an effort to stem the tide of bullshit that comes at us.

Considering a large driver of the current protest movement is coming from the left side of the aisle, it seems like a perfect opportunity to forge some bonds with the RTKBA.

I agree and it’s also the reason why we are doing this over here. EVERYONE is equal under the eyes of the law and the constitution. One of my personal goals is to try and break the current stereotype of my generation (gen X) and the younger ones if all being white, Ultra conservative angry, and racist. These things cannot be possible without connecting to people on all forms of social media or by blasting different races or ideas in an open and uncontrolled forum setting 24/7. While I couldn’t be there yesterday I was happy to defend what you all did and why you were there on Facebook when it was said that gun nuts stormed the capital. I was happy to point out that many people from all races and walks of life showed up and had the pictures to prove it if necessary.

Quote: I'll buy some off of you. I can give them out at the group shoots. Let me see if I can get some group shoot money from Greg and maybe I can take a bunch.

I would also like one too as well as the PA2A patch. Hopefully I can make it to the group shoot this year as well.
#14
I observe far more than I post. Usually when I have a thought I just PM Justin. But since he's looking for input I'll throw a few pennies in.

Justin, you own this. There is no need for a formal hierarchy here. I'm happy to be able to help as I can and see fit. In the same sense I'm happy to be able to walk away if things go a direction I don't like. You've always been open for advise and to me that is good enough. You have established yourself this week in the pro gun world.

Myself, I'd much rather we stay on point with our message. I kneel for no one, I'd decline to participate in anything like that.

I agree that this ought to be run by PA2A only. Too much drama trying to organize with other groups. This is not to say we shouldn't support them in their efforts as I'm sure many of them will be supportive in ours. I think we have a solid friendship going with several groups in this regard.

I'd be more discreet about the security. Announcing we have it as a deterrent is a good thing. That may stop a lot of problems before they happen. I would not however put every little detail out there for general consumptions. It could compromise the team.

If you can make the June 20th group shoot I can buy some patches off you. I'll give them away as prizes or something.
#15
(06-09-2020, 06:55 PM)pennlineman Wrote: I observe far more than I post. Usually when I have a thought I just PM Justin. But since he's looking for input I'll throw a few pennies in.

Justin, you own this. There is no need for a formal hierarchy here. I'm happy to be able to help as I can and see fit. In the same sense I'm happy to be able to walk away if things go a direction I don't like. You've always been open for advise and to me that is good enough. You have established yourself this week in the pro gun world.

Myself, I'd much rather we stay on point with our message. I kneel for no one, I'd decline to participate in anything like that.

I agree that this ought to be run by PA2A only. Too much drama trying to organize with other groups. This is not to say we shouldn't support them in their efforts as I'm sure many of them will be supportive in ours. I think we have a solid friendship going with several groups in this regard.

I'd be more discreet about the security. Announcing we have it as a deterrent is a good thing. That may stop a lot of problems before they happen. I would not however put every little detail out there for general consumptions. It could compromise the team.

If you can make the June 20th group shoot I can buy some patches off you. I'll give them away as prizes or something.

I’m not going to kneel down either but I have no problem with those that want to or use signage to express how they feel about what’s going on around us.

Right now thousands of new gun owners are coming into the fold everyday since this all began and a huge majority are inner city African Americans. If they know that some of us are in fact on their side it will do a lot to stop the media and politicians narrative of them being targeted by white nationalists what ever the fuck that is.

I don’t want to see this site become a haven for this weeks new cause but what I hope what it becomes is a common bond that brings gun owners together regardless of their causes.
#16
We didn't release the security plan until after the event. The idea is to build trust with those that didn't come because they believed the fake new "threat." There will always be a threat, but we can show that we're prepared to hand those threats, instead of backing down.


I hope I didn't give the impression that this is going to become the "cause of the week."
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#17
(06-09-2020, 07:54 PM)JustinHEMI Wrote: We didn't release the security plan until after the event. The idea is to build trust with those that didn't come because they believed the fake new "threat." There will always be a threat, but we can show that we're prepared to hand those threats, instead of backing down.


I hope I didn't give the impression that this is going to become the "cause of the week."

Nope I just figured with something so big going on that's effecting so many and has the potential to change so much that if a pro 2A bro wants to show they support black gun ownership or George was murdered sign then go for it. In the end it's more attention to the need for citizens to be personally armed and taking responsibility for themselves vs the nanny gov as far as I am concerned.

Nothing more then what I saw from yesterday's pictures with the LGBT community or the one guy with the George Floyd sign.
#18
After reading the posts here and elsewhere, I just wanted to add that I think we are all on the same page here.
We want a purpose driven 2A organization without all the toxic drama that gets in the way elsewhere.

We want to be as big tent and diverse as possible without diluting the main 2A purpose of this venture.
I think we are well on the way to filling that 2A niche which has been needing attention in PA for some time.

I have nothing against our sister forum, it serves an important purpose and I will not abandon it.
But the free for all nature of the forum, while good for some things, tends to make serious 2A work difficult.

I think Justin is doing this thing right, and he has my total support.
My thanks to all who are on board, I think we are going to do good things for the 2A in PA.

This effort materialized because there is a serious void in PA 2A politics, and we have been steadily losing ground.
With no disrespect to the monumental ongoing efforts of other 2A organizations, the big game changers here are the GOA coming to Harrisburg and Justin's rebirth of PA2A.

No one was stepping up to help legacy 2A organizations stem the rising anti 2A tide, and it has come down to us to take a stand for the 2A in PA.
Like it or not this is our time, and we have inherited the responsibility to help protect the 2A in PA for ourselves, our children, and everyone else.

It doesn't matter if we agree on everything, if we are all in this together I am proud to stand with each and every one of you.
I will do all I can to make PA2A a success, and with a little luck, we can help save the 2A in PA along the way.

Bern-
#19
(06-10-2020, 10:14 AM)Berncly Wrote: After reading the posts here and elsewhere, I just wanted to add that I think we are all on the same page here.
We want a purpose driven 2A organization without all the toxic drama that gets in the way elsewhere.

We want to be as big tent and diverse as possible without diluting the main 2A purpose of this venture.
I think we are well on the way to filling that 2A niche which has been needing attention in PA for some time.
.........

It doesn't matter if we agree on everything, if we are all in this together I am proud to stand with each and every one of you.
I will do all I can to make PA2A a success, and with a little luck, we can help save the 2A in PA along the way.

Bern-

Agreed, and I just want to take this moment to send my appreciation for EVERYONE'S work behind the scenes (organizing, ops, coms, $$$$ support, and just bodies on the ground).

Thanks again, folks...I'll be here to help in any way I can for us to really make a difference!

Howard
#20
(06-10-2020, 10:14 AM)Berncly Wrote: After reading the posts here and elsewhere, I just wanted to add that I think we are all on the same page here.
We want a purpose driven 2A organization without all the toxic drama that gets in the way elsewhere.

We want to be as big tent and diverse as possible without diluting the main 2A purpose of this venture.
I think we are well on the way to filling that 2A niche which has been needing attention in PA for some time.

I have nothing against our sister forum, it serves an important purpose and I will not abandon it.
But the free for all nature of the forum, while good for some things, tends to make serious 2A work difficult.

I think Justin is doing this thing right, and he has my total support.
My thanks to all who are on board, I think we are going to do good things for the 2A in PA.

This effort materialized because there is a serious void in PA 2A politics, and we have been steadily losing ground.
With no disrespect to the monumental ongoing efforts of other 2A organizations, the big game changers here are the GOA coming to Harrisburg and Justin's rebirth of PA2A.

No one was stepping up to help legacy 2A organizations stem the rising anti 2A tide, and it has come down to us to take a stand for the 2A in PA.
Like it or not this is our time, and we have inherited the responsibility to help protect the 2A in PA for ourselves, our children, and everyone else.

It doesn't matter if we agree on everything, if we are all in this together I am proud to stand with each and every one of you.
I will do all I can to make PA2A a success, and with a little luck, we can help save the 2A in PA along the way.

Bern-


Well said.   I do believe that the biggest chance of success in sustaining the 2A in PA will not come from big organizations, but in finally engaging the citizens and voters in personally getting involved.

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